A Look Back at the Star Fox Series

I see em' up ahead - Let's rock and roll!

Ryan and James look back throughout the vast depths of the Lylat system and reminisce of the Star Fox catalog! Talks of personal favorites, developer history, and looking to the future, capped off with an exciting quiz that will test your knowledge of Corneria - Star Fox 64's explosive intro level. Hop in your Arwing and fly on over to the campfire for this new episode of galactic proportions!

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Logo: Psyonyx
Music: Robotic Park by Kyon

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Transcript

Intro

James 0:00

Welcome, listeners, to another episode of the Co-op Campfire Podcast, and Lylat Wars are in full effect here. We have a very special episode to talk everything Star Fox that we have played. I'm James and Ryan, how are you feeling about this topic today?

Ryan 0:17

Hey! Come on.

James 0:21

Good luck. Get it all out. Yeah, going through our list here, we have quite a lot on the on the queue today. So make sure. Uh have you checked your G diffuser, Ryan? I have, and I'm having a problem with it. Should I use the boost to chase? Okay.

Ryan 0:38

I think we've got it all out. I think that one's a good let's do the obvious one. One, two, three.

James 0:56

So normally on our podcast, we like to start with any spark of excitement and anything going on in your life or gaming related. I think that's pretty much a shared thing for both of us here today. I don't I can't speak for you, Ryan, but I think given the topic and everything that we have played recently, that that's kind of lining up.

Ryan 1:16

Agreed. We had a very fun get together recently. It is also the reason we are playing Star Fox.

James 1:23

It's a bit tough because this is a bit spoilery, kind of spoiler related. So I'm gonna recommend that you just do a quick skip to the timestamp. Five minutes, 35 seconds. And then we can continue the discussion there. But I didn't want to withhold what this was about, so we're gonna talk about it real quick. So uh for those who have seen it, in the Super Mario Galaxy movie, Fox McCloud makes a triumphant appearance on the silver screen. Ooh, I like that word. That is a good adjective for that. It felt like it, man. I mean, that was such a cameo to pull for this movie. It was so exciting to see him one it all. This is a series that really hasn't had a lot of anything since it's almost been about 10 years since Zero. It's kind of crazy.

Ryan 2:15

If you want to get technical, 2017 was the last quote unquote release, like which is technically correct with Star Fox 2 on the SNES classic, but yeah, almost a decade of nothing.

James 2:28

And to see him in one of the biggest sequel movies for the original Super Mario Bros. movie was nuts. And the way they framed the intro with that animation, it was so slick. The music, it just everything came rushing back of like this is just some sick shit. This is awesome. It was so cool to watch this. The first thing I wanted to do was go home and play Star Fox. That was it, that was what stuck to me was like, I need to play Star Fox.

Ryan 2:59

Well, out of all the references that happened, it was like a canon that went off with Star Fox, and I could see why you would want to just jump back into it.

James 3:08

It really was. It's kind of crazy because that movie has so many references and crazy things that happen in it. But Star Fox's introduction into this cinematic universe, I guess, for Mario. The MCU, James, the official MCU. Smash Brothers movie? Are we are we like are we like a news podcast? Are we trying to like pull? Like, is the is the Smash Brothers movie coming in 2028? Miyamoto says no, but we say yes. Nintendo lawyers are on our asses after this episode. We better better watch what we say here. So as far as the movie, Ryan, was there anything else? How did you feel about seeing him on the screen?

Ryan 3:49

Oh, again, it was just it was so hype. Triumphant is right. It was again like a cannon just exploded. They went over the top with him in a good way where they they gave him that very like egotistical personality. But I think it just worked for like, hey, let's just whatever. He's a confident guy, he's the Han Solo of the Nintendo universe, and he has like the skills to back it up. So it was just fun to see them embrace that and for him to get along with Mario. It was almost like a little Easter ignode, like how Solid Snake and Sam Fisher do that when they do crossovers of like, oh, I respect what you're doing. It's like the little, the little hat cowboy hat tilt towards the like tip your hat to each other. Exactly. It was very much that, like paying your respects to the relevant IPs. It was awesome. Best part of the movie, and now I want a Star Fox anime based off of that animation they had. It was so good.

James 4:44

I found the Twitter post of the studio that did it, and that was like awesome to see. Like, hey, I did the anime, I was the animation director for the Star Fox trailer, basically, that was in the movie, and that was Oh no kidding. Who did it? He's an animator that was contracted with like Mappa Studio. So they've done uh like jujitsu kaizen and uh Chainsaw Man. It is like this specific guy, his name is Benjamin Fair. He basically said, uh, I had an incredible time working as a 3D supervising animator on the movie and was truly honored to be in charge of the 2D Fox intro sequence, getting the chance to bring both 2D and 3D animation to life on this project, make the whole experience more special. So grateful to have been a part of it.

Ryan 5:28

How cool. Well, kudos to Ben and the team there. They knocked it out of the park.

Star Fox (SNES)

James 5:33

Absolutely killed it. So I want to talk about everything Star Fox that we could get our hands on before this recording. I guess it makes sense to start right with uh the Super Nintendo original Star Fox. Ryan, I think you have played more than this than me.

Ryan 5:49

Yeah, so I like to start release order with things, so I had to commit to the first Star Fox. And uh, we were talking a little bit afterwards, and a uh a heavy topic with Star Fox, especially now in 2026, is playing with the frame rate. And that actually stopped you from getting more into it, didn't it? Yeah, I don't want to like it's tough. I mean, we're just we're just addressing the elephant in the room. It's a great game, first of all. But I just wanted to definitely touch on this.

James 6:18

It is struggling, it is really pushing the limits of what the super NES was even capable of doing. I think the the hard part for me and is 64 effectively remakes this game and is just almost like I would just prefer to play 64 than this game.

Ryan 6:35

Yeah. And I mean, like when you compare the two, you can see where the core of Star Fox was and how it got really refined into 64. So right away, I'll say you will like this game if you want to experience that. Where did Star Fox get its roots from? And as much as the frame rate is a talking point, there are some people that say that they designed around it and it promotes a discussion of if you like acknowledge the frame dips and you design around it, that's part of the intended experience, is it not? So if you go with that mindset in mind, it's got a lot to offer. And especially for Star Fox fans, you can appreciate how a lot of that got carried over and upgraded when it got to 64 and subsequent games. It was the first, I don't know about the first, but it was definitely one of the most iconic acrobatic plus rail shooter. I I've been describing it as that sets it apart from other rail shooters or other like shoot-em-up kind of games. The acrobatics and the shooting always just comes together. In every star, like this is again like it just is like a template for every other Star Fox game, but you can really see it starting here, being able to do barrel rolls and render your ship on the side and dodging stuff. And it's all just polygons, it's all really just like rectangles and triangles and trapezoids and just weird shapes, which goes into like how impressive the 3D graphics were for the time, too. This is the game that made it a technical marvel of rendering 3D graphics for a 32-bit system using this like very powerful super chip that the SNES had.

James 8:15

Well, it was the Super FX chip that is in the cartridge, it's not in the console. So they had to make that as like a supplementary piece of like this game is not possible without this being in the chipboard. So there were certain games, I think there was like Super FX Rally, it was like a racing game, uh, a couple others that used it. To your point, this is such an impressive graphical marvel for consoles. This was such a cool thing to see on home consoles. You didn't have to go to an arcade to experience this. This was on your Super Nintendo that was like no other game looks like this. And I think that goes a long way with the art direction of this game. They do a great job. I really even though I have not played, I haven't played this game to credits, I'll be honest. It's just hard for it's hard. It's really hard for me with the frame rate. But the frame rate. It is. It's tough when 64 exists, but I really love what they do with the portraits, like the pixelated portraits and some of the backgrounds and stuff, melding in those 3D models and the shapes, and they do make some like convincing enemy types that feel different and the bosses that are all shaped in a specific way. And you even see some of those bosses get the N64 gloss when that game comes out, where it's like the base concept of this thing was there from the Super Nintendo with just triangles and trapezoids and lines and stuff, and like that was a fully conceived thing, and it still looks good today for a Super Nintendo game, and then it only gets better as the games go on.

Ryan 9:54

Yeah, it's a lot more like colorfully vibrant than most other Star Fox games, like up until we get to zero, in my opinion. Maybe for the DS, and you can speak more on that when we get there. I haven't played those, but that did also stand out to me. With it, it was very colorful. It really made you feel like you were in a 3D environment, like you were flying through space. Like the asteroid level ended up being one of my favorites just to get that feeling in particular. And it was funny. See, like I never played Star Fox as a kid, so when I got to Venom, I was so excited because I was like, oh, that's the music from Smash Brothers Melee when you're on corner. Like, oh, it was so exciting! Like I recognized it from that, and so it was cool to hear like the original rendition of that and fully kind of catch up, if you will, with the franchise. But my takeaway was like, if you're familiar with it, it's really fun to appreciate where the roots are and it's emphasized here. I probably wouldn't have played this all the way through if we weren't doing this impression of Star Fox series, but I'm really glad we did. And I would recommend it to anyone just wanting to get a little piece of Nintendo key history under their belt. Would you say it is a Super Nintendo classic?

James 11:08

Oh, yeah. I do agree with you. It's tough because it is chunky and it isn't. I think that the biggest thing for me is it's not like stable, it's not like at a stable frame rate, it hops between like 14 and 20, and it kind of just chugs when there's a lot going on or when you take damage or things are happening. And this kind of and I can argue maybe my point to Star Fox 2, which I have played through multiple times and isn't much better in the frame rate department. But I think that would be my biggest fix would be if it could just be a stable 20 or a stable 30 or something. Now, obviously, the Super Nintendo is not capable of handling that kind of thing. The ROM hacking community has actually released patches for Star Fox and Star Fox 2 for those that that might be a barrier, and that might be something I'd be curious to try out to maybe line up with your experience or like kind of compare it. I I don't think I would want to play this game in like 60 FPS. I think given the course layout and like how enemies come at you and obstacles, that 60 probably doesn't make sense for this kind of game. But I can maybe see 30 working out where that's like not too much, but I don't know if that like contradicts, like you said, that original experience where they like the developers literally factored in that frame chugging into the experience in a way to make it work out.

Ryan 12:31

Yeah. So the argument for it being true to form is I will say, like, in my experience when the frame rate did chug, it was more of like obstacles coming at you, especially on Venom. Like they were rendering a lot of horizontal and vertical rectangles that you either had to shoot or like go through. And that was like it would chug there, but it was only environmental hazards that I was dealing with. And then when you got to like more of a dog fight, if there were a lot of bullets and stuff, yeah, it slowed down and it actually gave me time to like register all the bullets in a way of like where I need to go. So in that frame, it's like, okay, they didn't throw so much at you that you're just like, it's the whole like a wall of crap coming at you that you just can't respond to. On the other hand, this sounds like a bar to entry for you. So I feel like 30 FPS is a good compromise of not doing a meme of like AI upscaling this anime to 60 FPS. Like let's not get too crazy here. We don't need like 120 hertz going in here, but 30 sounds like what things could achieve back then and what ideally, like in a world where it was powerful enough that you would probably hit.

James 13:41

Interesting. Uh very humble but impressive beginnings for this little series on the Super Nintendo. Ryan, did you have anything else you wanted to say about Star Fox? Did you have a favorite level or like a moment that stood out to you that was just like really cool?

Ryan 13:57

I got two things. One, the favorite level was it was like a battleship level where you had to go through three battleships and blow up the core at all three of them. That was really fun. That was where like the space feel really elevated to like a good experience there the most.

James 14:14

That's that sounds hype. That sounds like a really cool Star Fox level of one down, two to go, and you have, you know, I I like when there's that open space, but there's still a lot of stuff happening with it.

Star Fox 2 (SNES)

Ryan 14:25

It was a good pacing. That was also another thing. Each level had like a very nice pace to it, and that was like the most like, yeah, we're doing like a Star Wars, let's go. The second thing was interestingly enough, I had the thought of Star Fox as a whole has really good roguelike potential. Most games that are popularized and talked about a lot, like 64, they're popularized for like having these routes that you could potentially do in like an afternoon, but you still have content to go back to and explore. So, funny enough, I was looking that up and going into Star Fox 2, it was actually designed with that in mind. I dabbled a little bit in it, but James, what were your thoughts of Star Fox 2? I think my hot take, it's hard, it's really hard.

Speaker 2 15:14

Hot take alert, hot take alert. I might have some bogeys on my tail saying this. I think it's hard to it's like 64, I think is probably the most rock solid entry in the series, probably the best game. It's hard, it's hard not to argue for it, but Star Fox 2, I think, is the most interesting Star Fox game out of the entire catalog and has such an awesome and addicting gameplay loop. I love it to death. So you may not have heard of this game all that much, especially if you were around for Star Fox 2's initial release, because this game was never officially released to the public. It was about 95% complete, but Nintendo decided to cancel it because right around the corner of its release were the PlayStation, the Saturn. So while Star Fox one was pushed out and partially developed with a sense of what can we do with this technology? We're really pushing it almost like a Donkey Kong country. Like this is a true graphical showcase on the system. That was not going to be the case at the time of Star Fox 2's release when all of these 32-bit systems were coming out and looking the way they were. They thought it was a smart idea to just not put any attention to it, focus on 64, move on. Sadly, this game just kind of sat in dormant forever. There were some leaked ROMs online that were like earlier builds, not really complete. But in 2017, when they did the mini console releases, the mini console release of the Super Nintendo Classic, that was the perfect time for them as a hook to buy this thing. It includes the lost Star Fox 2, never before released, and that was like a big deal. That was pretty cool. It's like a brand new Star Fox experience that was just not there for a long time.

Ryan 17:08

That was pretty hype. It's so rare for a main series IP from Nintendo to have that kind of situation where a game was withheld and now years later it's finally being revealed to the public.

James 17:19

No shade at Nintendo, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing they would do or like actually have the files or the build to just like, hey, we've got this. This is a good like somebody on that marketing team probably threw some ideas around, and that was a pretty compelling hook for me. I think I was already gonna get it anyway, but this definitely sold me on like I gotta play this basically new Star Fox game. Despite some of my initial gripes with the original, what they explored with this format of Star Fox is just so crazy. I I'm really shocked they never tried more of it. It almost kind of mirrors a Zelda 2 experience to me, where they took some wild swings and just said, okay, maybe not, but good try. While most people see a lot of changes in 64, a lot of them really originated here. This game is entirely all range mode, which is literally said out loud by Fox McCloud in 64. Rather than being a start to finish on Rails experience, you get full 3D movement in whatever stage you're in. So whether that is just a quick little fight against an enemy squadron or you're on a planet trying to destroy the core of a base and liberate it from enemy occupancy. Full 3D movement all the way around, you fly where you want.

Ryan 18:41

On that note, the goal of the game is you are fighting Andross's forces and trying to protect Cornelia at the same time. There are planets that you need to liberate, there are forces that get closer to Cornelia that you need to stop before the damage percentage goes up, but you have the choices to literally move your two guys around to wherever you want to go.

James 19:02

I want to back up a bit because I think one of the craziest things to start this game out is you get the choice to select your pilot, which is not a thing in Star Fox one. The first decision you make in this game is who do I play as? And you get two. You get a main pilot and a wingman that is randomly selected, but you can change it. But this is such a cool idea. Like, why not make all of the pilots have their own unique stats? You have the kind of more well-balanced, like Fox and Falco are the more well-balanced ones. They have bombs and they have like pretty all-around, like boosting gauge, health, whatever. But if you want like a more tankier build, you can play as peppy or slippy. They have almost no boost, but they have basically double the health. There's also two new pilots that have not been seen since this game, which is really sad because I really love their designs. They're so cute. Mew and Faye, they're just like it's like a lynx and like a poodle. And they're just really cute. And they they are like the low shields but high boost, like dog fighting class. You know, if you need to like make an assault quickly and get in and get out, they're probably the ones you want to pick. So already that is a huge shift that the other games really don't ever do again, honestly. Like they really don't do that until command, which again we'll talk about more later.

Ryan 20:30

Yeah, the ships for each of these pilots is different too. There's three kinds, I guess. Right.

James 20:37

Yeah, Fox and Falco have the standard ar wings, and I don't remember what they're called, but they they're like really big and bulky, the ones that Peppy and Slippy have. And then Miyu and Faye have this kind of like sleek looking, like micro R wing that is just like really zippy. So in Star Fox, when you play it through like the original game, 64 of the more on Rails ones, you do have a lot of decisions you're making in the moment. There's a lot of things coming at you. How do I dodge? Do I dodge? Do I do a charge shot? Do I use a bomb here? But Star Fox 2 gives you so many micro decisions because it's basically a real-time strategy game, and it's crazy. Rather than picking easy, normal, or hard or just going on the path, you literally have a cursor and you see the whole Lylat system, kind of like you'll see in Star Fox 64, but you just get to basically point and say, I'm going over here, and you'll see them fly and the other forces move when you're moving. So you basically start on one corner of the map in Corneria, where you're like the great foxes. And so that's kind of like your home base. You've got enemy forces that are loose moving towards corneria. So you have to intercept them, run into them on the map, and that begins a battle. So you have to shoot these guys down before they damage corneria. You've got battle cruisers. Which are launching the forces that you're fighting. So at some point you have to do, and this reminds me a lot of your favorite level, Ryan, where you had those three battle cruisers in space. You kind of have to just do that. This is literally like Battlefront 2. You have to approach the battle cruiser with your ship and fly into it to destroy the core. It's so cool. You've got these, and then you've got the bases that are randomly assigned across, depending on your difficulty, a certain number of planets. So they will launch missiles which are like super damaging and basically almost a game over if those ever get to corn area. So I just love the stakes, the urgency, and just the format. It's so interesting to me to where, like you said, it's got those randomized roguelike elements that really make each run feel super fresh because every time you boot it up, it's not do I just want to go for a high score on the easy mode. It's like I don't even know what I'm walking into. Maybe when I start the game, these front two planets are coming in hot and I've got to focus on those first. Or maybe on the right hand side, the map is clogged up with like bad stuff, but there's a cruiser on the left I should probably take care of first. Like you kind of have things you got to ask yourself like, how are you tackling this scenario to like protect corneria Very simple, but you have to take these objectives out in specific order.

Ryan 23:26

So I have a question, James. As you keep playing a run, will more stuff generate as you go through it? Or is that like all you got right away?

James 23:35

So you like you can select normal from the start, and then you unlock hard after you beat your first run, and then there's expert. Basically, all that does is how much stuff starts on the map. On expert, there's four planets you have to liberate versus three versus two on normal. There's more aircraft or battle cruisers, how they call them. So another cool thing, the real-time element of this game. So obviously, as you move on the map, the other forces are moving around with you. But while you are in a level, the forces are still moving on the map. So while you're fighting a squadron or you're working on a base, those things that are on the map are actually making progress real time towards corneria. And you'll see Pepper update you. So he'll say, like, the cruiser just launched an attack force. Like that just happened while you were in the level. Or he may say, a missile is on its way towards corneria because maybe it wasn't there at the start when you went to this planet, but as you're just playing the level normally, like the real-time clock is spinning and they launched a missile. That's like if you pause the screen, it'll show you the map and things are different. There's even arguments where, like, hey, I gotta bail because this is a game ender. This missile, if it reaches corneria and it launched, like I can tell it launched like super close. Like, I have to literally leave this level and immediately go and solve this problem. Honestly, the ideas of this game are really impressive, not just for like a shakeup to the formula, but I think they're just really impressive for the time. All of these decisions for this real-time component are so meaningful, and it's such a fresh way to experience Star Fox. I'm genuinely sad they never really did anything like this again.

Ryan 25:16

The thing clearly was player choice. Let them choose what battles to do, but don't hold back on putting them into a situation where you can't like mess around too much on a planet. You have to consider all the things all the time. Would you say that was manageable as you were first learning about it?

James 25:33

The first couple runs are maybe a little tricky. Normal is really not too bad because there's not too much to do. But again, there's there's portions where the more difficulty you add to the game, Andros will sometimes interrupt with a cutscene and send a boss after you. So that's like a significant threat. And that's one of the first things you see booting up the game is this like crazy dragon, this mirage dragon. Hard to believe, but this is actually in line with the bosses. This is Star Wolf's first appearance, is in this game. This was not 64. This was always conceived from Star Fox 2. That is a really cool aspect of this and very exciting moment when you're in a dog fight with Star Wolf. It's very archaic. I wouldn't say it's like the smoothest thing in the world, especially with the combination of like frame rate and the lack of aerial mobility that 64 introduces, but it's just a cool moment when you're like, oh, let's go. I got Leon in the asteroid field, let's fucking go. That too, it's like depending on where you fight enemies on the map. Like if you fight Star Wolf just in this little corner of the map, it's just clear space. But if you meet him in an asteroid field, that's an extra obstacle you have to deal with. Those asteroids are there. I really could gush about this game a whole lot more. I think if you are a fan of roguelikes, you would really want to try this game out. If you enjoy playing a Star Fox game, but you wish there were like strategy elements or just, you know, kind of real-time aspects or just a different format. I think Star Fox 2 is absolutely worth a playthrough, despite still some of those technical limitations, some of those things that you know they didn't do any crazy upscaling, they didn't fix quote unquote fix the game for like its actual official release on this mini console. They just said, here you go, it's here, it's ready to go.

Ryan 27:24

Good stuff.

James 27:25

Yeah.

Ryan 27:25

What a unique entry. By the time it was coming out originally, I don't think they improved the performance substantially enough or were able to at the time, but they certainly just like hey, we had the base core idea that's at the base of every Star Fox game, asterisk. Well hold on, we'll get to that. It's here's more, and here's more player choice, and just go at it. And it's a very unique experience. So I'm looking forward to getting more into it after my brief exposure.

James 27:52

It is interesting. Like, you can get a game over in Star Fox one. It's like I just ran out of I ran out of continues, you know, game over. Oh no. This game scores you at the end of your run. Literally, it is like a roguelike run, and it will like detail like, hey, did you clear venom? How many planets did you liberate? Did you use your continue? Did your main pilot die? But there's also you can still get scored if you lose. It'll basically just be like, what was your like what was the final result? Uh corn area blew up. You messed up. So I just think that's like really interesting how it's like they thought of that stuff. There are some concepts that were in this game that don't get seen for quite a while, probably up until zero. Uh, this game introduced Star Wing transformations with like a little walker mode. And when you get onto the planets, there's like this sort of very basic dungeon crawling moving through a base on this walker where you have like different doors and things to go through. So I want to put a pin in that because you have played more Star Fox Zero than me, but again, just more cool things that this entry really tried to innovate on in its second go-around.

Ryan 28:59

Yeah, it's a great point. And it's important to clarify Star Fox 2 invented a lot of these things that were later introduced. So again, introduced versus invented, and that's what made returning to Star Fox 2 so fun because it felt like a beta of like the rest of the games that we saw, and it was so fun to see that history of, oh, this is where it started. This was the almost quote unquote prototype, and it wasn't at the same time. It was like a technically fully fleshed out, well, take that back, it was a 95% fleshed out idea that just sat on the shelf for years. Like, what an enigma in Nintendo history.

James 29:40

I'm a big believer in like the butterfly effect. You know, if I wore a different pair of shoes one day in 1997, would my life have been different? Would the trajectory of my life have changed dramatically? And like I truly wonder if this game actually released would hit it would it have made like a significant impact on the series, or is it still pretty much the same, but depending on the reception? It's just interesting to think about. Well, okay. So what are your thoughts?

Ryan 30:06

Do you think Nintendo made the right move there in withholding it?

James 30:10

I don't think so because I think they have done this release strategy. And honestly, all publishers and all game companies do this, where you're still getting, you know, you were still getting 360 releases when the Xbox One was out. You're still getting PS2 games when the PS3 comes out. It doesn't have to be this big, bold, crazy. I mean, I guess it's one of their core franchises, so maybe that had a part to play in it. But I still think it could have been like valuable to release just more games, you know. Like, hey, we've got Star Fox 2 right now. You can play it. This has a lot of new, fresh concepts, but look forward to the N64 because we got something special for you.

Star Fox 64 (N64)

Ryan 30:48

Interesting take. It's and you know, it's interesting. You say it's a it's a core series. It wasn't back then, it was their second game. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall and like really get a vibe for what the the landscape was for like how important the fight for 3D was at that point.

James 31:06

How do you think they did in the fight for 3D with our next game on the list, Ryan? Star Fox 64. I mean, just play it.

Ryan 31:15

Like, if you want Star Fox, this is what is advertised. This is what everybody talks about. It takes the first game and it takes some of the ideas from the second game and it introduces them for the first time, like Star Wolf. It just polishes everything up, it fixes the frame rate. So James was like 100% in it's great. I want to hop in real quick.

James 31:38

Uh, it was wild to play Star Fox 2. And again, I love Star Fox 2, but from going to Star Fox 2 immediately to 64, I felt like I was playing in 120 frames a second. It was really weird. I was like, whoa, this is like it's an N64 game, but it felt like the best running game I've played on any device, like from one to this. It was so funny. He's gone black. Oh my goodness.

Ryan 32:10

Yeah, on the N64, too, of all things, where other games have had frame rate ish like Bandra Tui, shoosh, like it like in the beginning, cinematic, it had like frame rate drops. Meanwhile, you go into this appropriately themed, like space themed game of flying through environments with acrobatics on rail shooter, and you're just like you said, going 120 frames a second. It's it's wild.

James 32:34

This game still looks pretty good, not just taking the mold of Star Fox one and giving it the coat of paint that the 64-bit system could do, it's incredibly smooth. The frame rate is pretty much locked in outside of like occasional I'm taking a ton of damage right now, and things are kind of chugging, but like the whole game is incredibly smooth to play, it feels great to play. This game is also famous for introducing one little feature that came bundled in with it, and that was the Rumble pack, believe it or not. This is an industry-changing thing, truly. Like, it's weird to not have a controller with Rumble, whether you use it or not. That's like a standard feature ever since that came out, and that came with Star Fox 64. I actually have the manual pulled up and they even mention it. They say the Star Fox 64 game is compatible with the Rumble pack accessory. If you connect the Rumble Pack accessory through the controller, when your machine is hit during the game, you will feel different degrees of vibrations. You'll feel like you're actually sitting in the cockpit of the R Wing. I mean, how cool is that?

Ryan 33:41

What a fun way to sell it. Rumble seems so, like you said, just a given. Now it is nice to have the immersion, but to really sell that with Star Fox and to focus development time and money on more immersion from this kind of experience was it obviously paid off.

James 34:00

I wonder if like at E3 or if they were previewing this game, if they're like, okay, now hit the C button up and you're gonna go into the cockpit view. Does it really feel like you're flying this with the rum? Like, I wonder. I wonder how they they clearly like this this was like a huge sell. Like you were saying, Ryan. This game is, I think, the best of both worlds, truly. I do miss the strategy elements, but really it does kind of fix some of the structure of the first game. Not that it was an issue, but it allows for more flexibility. There are the quote unquote easy, normal, and hard paths, but it's kind of like an adaptive difficulty. It depends on how you complete the stages. So there is an easy route to clear in all stages, or there's like a win-lose condition, and then if you do the hard thing, you can go to the harder route, which then at that point allows you to switch if you don't feel like playing it, or you want to go to like the lower setting, you can just do that right away. So it really lets you tackle the game in kind of any way you want. There's 25 possible routes you can do. That's really interesting. I would I didn't even think of that. I'm thinking of like the you know, 16 planets or whatever in this game, but like the different ways you can end up to the end game, that's pretty cool to do like all the routes.

Ryan 35:17

So, fun fact uh Miyamoto had something to say about this too, and he says his favorite route is Route 24.

James 35:25

Okay, if I ever meet Miyamoto, I'm gonna ask him like Route 24, am I right? At one Instafan. He will sign anything you want. Oh my gosh. What even is Route 24? Do you have that?

Ryan 35:39

Yeah, I will tell you. Uh, for those familiar with the game, it is uh it's all it's on our Wingpedia.

James 35:46

Thank God for R Wingpedia. Really coming in clutch for the for the immediate notes.

Ryan 35:51

So Route 24 is Corneria, Sector Y, Katina, Sector X, Sector Z, Area 6, and Venom 2.

James 36:03

I actually really like that knowledge of like I'm looking at the map now and remembering these levels and what you have to do to get from each level. And that is a pretty cool layout for how you get there. Like instead of Katina, you could go up to Aquas, which is a water level, but Miyamoto, pro gamer, takes the warp in sector X to go to Sector Z. So, you know, he's clearly a pro at this to do the very difficult objective.

Ryan 36:30

See, that's wild. So, for more context, or listeners, James has grown up with this game. I only recently played it, so I didn't even know a warp existed until now. That is crazy. The amount of things you run into are so unique, of like your run can be so different from the other, and that's what really gets that replayability encouraged through exploring all the planets and the different hard modes of each one.

James 36:55

Which, while I I think people like to to criticize Star Fox for being a very short game, you can reach the credits really in about an hour. I think the speed run is about 30 minutes, but it's super replayable. There's 25 different ways you can end this game. There's optional medals that you can earn for truly optimizing and getting a very specific high score on the level that unlocks more stuff for the multiplayer mode and the like an alternate menu screen.

Ryan 37:21

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, James. I got a really fun fact. Go for it. One amazing thing I recently learned is Star Fox Assault that was famous for introducing uh ground mode a lot in the gameplay. Introducing is not the right word because it was actually introduced in Star Fox 64. If you unlocked every single optional metal in this game, you would unlock a ground versus multiplayer mode where you can actually see the characters running around like they do in the intro scene, like with little guns shooting at each other. There's no way I unlocked that as a kid.

James 37:59

I never knew about that. That's right, isn't that insane? Oh my gosh. One thing that Ryan and I took majorly for granted was remembering when this game came out because this was the era of strategy guides and manuals meaning something. There's a little bit of frustration with like if you're trying to like naturally through just no notes, no supplementary material, try to figure this game out top to bottom and all the optional objectives. There might be a few that like trip you up a bit, but the manual actually gives you like about 10 of them just for like a head start. So it literally lists them all in detail, like medio, fly through every warp gate. Sector X, defeat the boss before Slippy disappears. Like it just kind of goes over all that stuff, but it's just really funny, you know. I know that was something that was a little difficult at first. So the things that Star Fox 64 takes from the first game, obviously, the structure, the progression, there's no strategy elements like in two, it's just six stages in Venom. But the thing like that stuck out to me, and this is a game of moments, this is like such a cool experience to play from top to bottom. It had the production value, the music, the voice acting. This game is fully voice acted for an N64 game. That's honestly pretty impressive for the time.

Ryan 39:21

That's really crazy. Just more technical achievements from every Star Fox game at this point, being two of them, but still.

James 39:28

So many memorable quotes and lines that are said, like funny or not, you know, throughout the game. So, like the way the music pumps up when you're going into a boss, all of the explosions and the screams, it's like this is a game about goofy little animals piloting ships, and it's like this feels like a blockbuster movie on your N64. It's a game that sticks out to me as just a blast to play. I kept saying, like, as I was playing through this game, like, man, this game is sick. This is so cool. Every single level just kept impressing me with like some big moment or set piece or boss fight or hitting an optional objective and like seeing the mission accomplished instead of mission completed. I was like, this game's so cool. I would say this game is pretty difficult. You can find yourselves in some pretty difficult scenarios, like when you lose pilots or upgrades going into certain fights. You specifically have a phone to pick with Star Wolf. So I don't know if you want to talk about them.

Ryan 40:31

That was insane. Back to like how the dynamic difficulty, as James put it, it really does happen. And I was playing on Nintendo Switch Online where they have the rewind feature and stuff, and I was just trying to like use that in favor of exploring the routes that I wanted to go. Uh, I think that might have freaked me up a bit because I I basically told the game, like, yeah, I'm doing all the hard stuff, and it was like, okay, well, here's the last level. And I got to the last bit with Venom just before Andros and Star Wolf comes in, and it's like, oh, okay, let's let's fight him. Beat my ass repeatedly. It was so dejecting. I went in without Slippy, so already I was at a disadvantage, and it was they were just so insane. And I like quickly learned that they're immune to charge shots and bombs, so that was out. And then halfway through, I accidentally toggled off my reticle, and I thought that had something to do with me losing my lasers in between dying and using a continue. So I was just going in blind even more. It was just I had to stop my run there because it was so frustrating. I called James and he was like, Yeah, did you look at the manual? It says you hit start and you you toggle R with your reticle, and I was just like, I'm done.

James 41:48

What if what if I gave you another tilting update where I'll read the A button? If you hold the A button and an enemy flies within your cursor, the cursor will lock onto that enemy. Quickly press the A button, and then the discharge laser burst will home in on the enemy. This is called a homing attack. The homing attack will not work against everyone. Oh my god. As you were reading that, I was like, I know that though. Great. Like, again, it's not really communicated in the game. So they introduced this in the first game, too. If I'm correct, Ryan, if you take enough damage, if you're flying into obstacles, you can actually lose or like damage your wings. Yeah. And that affects cool. Yeah. And I thought that was honestly, I forgot that was in the first game, but that is still a mechanic here. So that removes your firepower upgrades that you've acquired and it makes it so your flight is adjusted because you know you have like you're dipping on a specific side because that's damaged. So if you're going into some of the harder sections of this game where you're expected to do like dog fighting with AI pilots or go up against a really hard boss battle with like low firepower, so you were outmanned, Ryan. You was a it was a 4v3, so you probably had more people on your tail, you know, throughout most of that run.

Ryan 43:07

Which Pepe and uh Falco wouldn't shut up about having people on their tail. So I was like, I got two guys on me.

James 43:15

What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? Try a somersault. I can't do it, I can't help you. To your point, I will say when you like get comfortable fighting them, it's not what you would envision how you do it. It's not like maybe the more natural way to fight them. You do have to do some kind of cheesy things, lead your shots in. You have to do some of those crazy maneuvers to like truly get them off your tail. And like it's in in a way where, like, hey, Star Fox 2 makes you make a bunch of cool little decisions throughout the whole game. This is like, I'm stressing, there's five things I need to do at once in this fight, and I can't do it all at once, you know?

Ryan 43:51

It is tough. And luckily, like, we're not the only ones saying that. It was very much apparent, everybody online was that I read, they were like, yeah. That fight is really fucking hard. So here's what you gotta do. Um, aside from that, though, it was kind of funny looking back on it because it is still like an endearing part of the game of the difficulty, is there for you people that want to get your hands on more Star Fox, and this is again the experience to do. If you try one Star Fox game, it has to be 64.

James 44:22

I think so too. I think like if you had one game to play of everything we've talked about today, you start with 64. Even if you just want to go back and revisit it, it is as good as you remember it. It's just really awesome. It's like it's very obvious why this is the most beloved Star Fox game, and I think the best one. So, Ryan, did you have a um a favorite quote or something that was said by somebody that just jumped out to you in this game? Because there's a lot of really crazy things that are said in this game.

Ryan 44:51

I'll say it's very underrated, but just like the deadpan of this quote made me laugh considering who it came from. There was a level called Solar. Solar. That where it's like you're basically on the sun and it's pretty intense. I almost died multiple times not understanding you take damage when you get closer to the lava. So I got down to probably like one HP, and it was very intense. I only had Slippy with me at the end. But when we came out, Fox goes, All aircraft report. And then Slippy just deadpan goes, I'm having some trouble here. Oh, poor slip. I was just like, he's seen some shit.

James 45:27

He's rude. He he literally watched his two comrades maybe die in the sun, and he's just like on fire, like, I don't know, Fox.

Ryan 45:36

So great. Oh my god. Such a contrast to help me, Fox! Help me! Just I'm having some trouble here.

James 45:42

Uh what was yours? I've got two. I don't know if you ended up playing the level. There's Sector X, Miyamoto's 24 in Route 24. That was one of Miyamoto's favorites. Oh, let's go. So you fight this weird boss. They'd never explain it. There's no like anything with this, but he goes, like, who is the creator? And he starts like trying to smack you around and fight you. Slippy? No, this is the boss. This is a robot. Okay. But as you're fighting this boss, you're on a secret timer. So you have to try to beat this boss quick because if you don't, Slippy tries to interject if he's alive. So he'll be like, ah, don't worry, Fox, I'll get him. And he gets smacked down if you take too long. And you just go on with the fight, but you watch him get destroyed. So whoa. It's really cool. It's interesting. That is one of the optional routes, is not meeting that condition. But after the level, if that happens, you know, Fox says something like, Oh, we gotta go get Slippy. And Falco's reaction is Slippy could be such a headache. I'm like, dude, he's probably he could be fucking dead. He could be dead. And I'm like, come on, man, now's not the time. That's his coping mechanism. Yeah, he just has to laugh about it, you know. It's like, oh, I'm a slip. But um, my other line that really messed up line is said by Pygma when you fight him on one of the Star Fox routes. So, for those who don't know, the former Star Fox team was helmed by Fox's dad, Peppy, and Pygma, who is on Star Wolf. Now he betrayed them. So it is very heavily implied that Fox's dad, James, dies after being betrayed by Peppy. When you go in to fight them, one of the lines that Pygma says is Daddy screamed real good before he died. And I'm like, bro, what are we doing? This is the kid's I'm like, that's that is messed up. That is messed up. But I was like, whoa. Wow, true scumbag mode. There are so many villains in this game that just have like kind of generic dialogue, like, oh, you'll never beat Andros, or like, oh, you little punks, you know. But like Pig was twisting the knife, man. I'm like, I literally was like eyes open, like, what the hell did he just say?

Ryan 47:57

So, dude, that's not the I thought you were gonna say he has another line that's like a lot less worse than a lot less bad than that, but sheesh, what is that line? The bounty. I I read an English translation of it him saying, Your father is waiting for you in hell. He doesn't actually see but like Jesus, I'm reading the wrong column here. Oh, yeah, okay. I thought you were gonna say too bad dad's not here to see you fail, which is still like pretty brutal, but not as diabolic as well.

James 48:29

That that was actually I couldn't believe it. I was truly truly shocked. We we still have some more games to talk about, so I really want to keep moving, but I gotta end on one last question. Do you have three favorite levels of this game? Just brief.

Ryan 48:44

Again, coming from someone who like isn't as familiar with the series, it's always really fun to just play Cornelia because that's just a very cozy little level of introducing you to stuff. You hear all the famous lines from all the squad members, and there's still things like I'm discovering with it right now. So if it's like a very exciting time for me personally to be in the series and experience the discovery of this whole game, it's a good level.

James 49:10

I mean, like genuinely for like an intro level, it's got like that destroyed city kind of aspect to it. You fly through just the the cool ocean overpass, you go through the city, and then I like it. It's a it's a good first level. Uh for me, if I had to pick like one true level that stuck out to me, I think it would probably be Macbeth, which is titled the Forever Train. So that's a Landmaster level.

Ryan 49:36

Yeah, I got that one too. So cool. I didn't uh I didn't really like the or I had trouble with the Landmaster, but I love the aesthetic of that level.

Star Fox Adventures (GC)

James 49:46

It does kind of introduce a timed aspect where you have to keep up with this train and keep fire on it while you're dealing with other things. I think that's like a really cool dynamic for it. But I love how the level can end. You can either just try to destroy the boss as intended, or you can actually divert the tracks. And I think that is just such a cool moment where you can like instead of fighting the boss, you can just try to shoot all these little switches to basically just one hit kill the boss. And it's just I love that moment where he's like, Stop! I I'm trying to hit the brakes, and then he's just like barrel the voice acting in that is so good. So cool. I just that that was such an interesting scenario for me. That was the one that, like, of all the levels, I thought that was like the coolest. It's not just like I needed to hit a number to get here or go through a warp gate. It's like, no, you have to like flip the script on the boss fight, and it's like, what if we did this instead? And I just think that's so cool. That was an awesome one. And shout outs real quick to Katina for the Independence Day reference. So literally Independence Day, the map. But uh, as much as I think we could talk about more routes and more fights and more moments from this game, Star Fox does not end here. Uh Ryan, why don't you tell us about the next game briefly?

Ryan 51:06

Yes, all right. So at this point, we are in the GameCube era. Rareware has just been sold to Microsoft, and it just so happens they were also working on what was their own IP that slowly transitioned into Star Fox. That's all I want to say right now because that topic is an episode in itself. The TLDR is that Rareware was developing a game called Dinosaur Planet, and their main character was a fox. Nintendo came in and said, Hey, we got a fox, let's let's collab. It became what we all know as Star Fox Adventures. It has been five years since '64. People were eagerly awaiting what the next installment for Star Fox was gonna be. And for the GameCube, we got Star Fox Adventures. What this game has done for the community is really asked the question of what makes a Star Fox game a Star Fox game. What happened here was that they went a different, a very different direction. You will hear the term back to basics a lot as we discuss Star Fox. This was the first game that really diverged from the natural formula, and it turned into more of like a Zelda-esque kind of experience. Just like it's in the title, it's an adventure. So it's it's been like a few years since the events of 64, and you get a mission from General Pepper to investigate this dinosaur planet that is on the verge of like exploding. If it explodes, it's gonna like destroy the entire universe. So I guess that's the excuse for you to go down there and see what's going on. But you do, and it's been a minute since I played, but that like everything you're doing is like really there's like 10 items you're trying to find to like get the planet back together.

James 52:47

So, really a big shakeup of what is that core Star Fox formula, there are Star Fox-esque segments, like kind of classic segments, like when you're going from one place to another, you do have your R Wing and you do go through like a little mini stage and you have to get so many coins in order to land or something. Am I right on that?

Ryan 53:07

Yeah, that's exactly right. It's actually really funny because playing it was either '64 or the SNES one. I heard music from quote unquote from Star Fox Adventures. Because more context, Star Fox Adventures was my first Star Fox experience. Wow. So uh like I was like, oh, that's the music when you first get into your R Wing and you go to Dinosaur Planet. How about that?

James 53:33

That is so funny. That's such a fun memory to like attach to that.

Ryan 53:36

I know. Well, it's I played that game so much. I'm a huge Zelda fan. And uh my sister and I, we loved it, contrary to most reception of the game. It's still a good game, and that's like what brings about the question like, do you call it a good game for what it is, or is it a good Star Fox game because Star Fox is in the title, you know? But I digress to your point. You get in the R Wing first, you have the segment to go to the planet, and that's about it. In the sense of a normalized Star Fox experience, you do segments to fly to like the other four planets that are going around, but most of the game is exploring stuff. You have a staff, you don't even have your blaster. They make it a point of like, oh Fox, you shoot first and you ask questions later. You can't do that, but find a weapon anyway. And you find this staff that allows you to like shoot fireballs, or there's literally points where you like stick it in a hole and you use it like a rocket boost to like jump onto ledges. It's pretty cool for how they compacted all these abilities into one thing, but that's like your main moveset for the game.

James 54:40

I am super excited to hear more about this game and more about your personal experience and thoughts with this game. Could it be a conversation of how multifaceted Rareware was as a developer? Truly giving the N64 its best platformers. They made shooters, and sounds like they crafted a complete Zelda experience that started life on the N64, funny enough, before being repurposed to adventures.

Ryan 55:08

Yeah, I mean they really had an idea here that it would have been a good game on its own, just being Dinosaur Planet. And I don't know, it's interesting to think about the butterfly effect, as you put it. Like, what if we just got the N64 Dinosaur Planet version, it probably would have been pretty solid. For the context of this conversation, you will like this game if you enjoy those kind of classic Zelda-like formulas. It probably has the last rareware vibes as we know it growing up in that era of what a rareware game was at the time. It's not without faults, but for what it tries to set out and do and make like a fun adventure on this dinosaur planet thing, like it's worth giving a shot. Just be aware it is not going to be a classic Star Fox experience. It just has the elements of being Star Fox.

James 55:58

So to end on that point, this is a complete genre shift for a Star Fox game. There's a pretty popular opinion in the RE community that Resident Evil 6 is not a great Resident Evil game, but it's a really fun Capcom action game. The story is all interconnected, it's pretty essential, like that you do understand the story and like give it a playthrough. But let's say we've got someone new to Star Fox, they're super excited to play, they played 64, loved it, really cool game. Do you recommend that they hop into adventures right afterwards?

Ryan 56:33

I mean, I'll always recommend uh a game if it like sticks to what it was trying to do, try it out. So yeah, I I would recommend it. I would also say it's not like essential. I think the only thing story-wise is that Crystal is a character that's introduced in this game who later shows up in other games. And it might be nice to know where she comes from. But to be honest, she's like in 10% of the game. You don't really get that much collaboration with her. It's more about Fox and his little dinosaur buddy roaming around trying to save the planet, just experiencing different dinosaur regions.

James 57:07

Yeah, if I remember, she's pretty much a damsel for most of this game. You know, she starts she starts you play as her in the intro portion, but then she very quickly gets to a situation where Fox needs to come rescue her.

Ryan 57:19

Unfortunately, because you can tell her personality is more self-empowering, like pretty clearly. So even that was a little jarring of like, ah crap, I guess I can't play as her anymore.

James 57:29

You know what was a little jarring to me was until Fox gets the translator, they have like the dinosaur language spoken, and it's just like you have no idea what these people are saying. It's so weird.

Ryan 57:41

Dude, the best line I have this like in my brain. It's like you meet the big, big, bad dictator tyrant on the planet. Yeah, his name's General Scales. He's this really cool looking, almost like Raptor that's like humanoid, and he has like a claw. Yeah. Well, they all have claws, but he has like literally like a sword, like kind of claw on his left hand, if I'm remembering that right. I think maybe that's just what I saw. But like he gets really fired up when you first meet him, and he's about to like throw you off the ship, and he's like, Arake goog, you go dude, general scales. He like throws you off the ship, and it's like, I see what you're doing with the pronouns there and saying them in English, but it's just so jarry.

Star Fox Assault (GC)

James 58:24

Like in their language structure, they have proper names separated from the language, you know. Everything else has its own cadence and like how you speak the words, and then it's just general scales. So it's um it's an amazing cutscene. Absolutely 10 out of 10 no notes. So a little bit of an interesting release with Star Fox Adventures, definitely some mixed opinions, but I think there's a lot to love about that game. But for fans that were looking for a more traditional Star Fox experience, the next game in the series, still on GameCube, would be Star Fox Assault. Now, James, did you play this? Did you have this growing up? I did. Uh, my sister and I played through this. I wish I remembered more about it. Sadly, I don't have a whole lot that I can pull from. I think maybe one of the more interesting things to note about this game is that it was developed by Namco and not internally at Nintendo. I mean, obviously, Adventures was developed by Rareware as well, so that was an outside pull, but it does play pretty traditionally. There are a lot of the classic uh scrolling levels for that, but this game famously tried to innovate with the inclusion of. Sorry, we have talked about this the whole episode. This the this was introduced properly, like for the public, introduced well, 6064 had done this, but like I think popularize the on-foot segments.

Ryan 59:52

I will say they will they more accessibly introduced it here. Yes, like to do it in start, you didn't even know it existed in 64. I I'd never heard about it either. I thought it was like a prototype thing, but this was the game where like it was definitely more incorporated as like a featured thing for the game.

James 1:00:10

I will say the N64 and the GameCube, even though they may not have performed as well as the competition for their console generations, implementing ready-to-go out-of-the-box four-player multiplayer is a big deal. And Star Fox Assault offered that. So that was a really cool way to experience Star Fox. That translated from the N64 to the GameCube. You could still grab four controllers and play multiplayer, and now it has a much more accessible way to play through Star Fox matches that are not just flying an Rwing around.

Ryan 1:00:47

So more multiplayer action while still sticking to the traditional formula of Star Fox for the most part. When I was actually reading about this game, trying to get an opinion on that, I always thought that Assault was we had the Dinosaur Planet fiasco or whatever. And then we went back to traditional Star Fox. But I was also, I was honestly seeing a little more of a gray area of like you either liked it or you didn't, of the introduction of like the ground combat. I think the overall reception was that you can either see it as like a misstep or something that you kind of had to deal with versus something like Star Fox 64 where you just enjoyed all of it. Star Fox Assault had the ground battling that was not enjoyed by all. And this is kind of a point that we should start with now.

Star Fox Zero (WiiU)

James 1:01:32

Star Fox 64 is essentially the glue of this franchise. The meme is kind of Star Fox 64, is basically expanded on for the rest of time after 64 released. Most games adopt taking the mold of 64 and either remaking it literally or repurposing it. And this was kind of the first game to really try to innovate the formula where it is not just all range mode or scrolling, it introduces this on foot third person combat, which I can't say it maybe holds up as well as like modern experiences. You know, I don't think Resident Evil 4 had come out yet, or like you think about games today that are third person, it's probably a little slippery. But again, coming back to that question, like what makes a Star Fox game a Star Fox game? Are we allowed to deviate gameplay styles to do different things where I can be on foot or I can have strategy elements or I can incorporate transformations for vehicles or stuff? Like you could give me Star Fox 64, but do a different story, do different characters, do new levels. Like if they just made that today, I think people would be satisfied. But I also think there's a pretty large amount of the community that does appreciate some of the innovation, so it's just an interesting mix.

Ryan 1:02:54

James, it's funny you say that because they technically did. They made a movie short about this to promote this game, and it really does follow a similar story to 64. Because in Assault, you actually get Crystal to fly as one of your people instead of Peppy. He takes more of a back seat. He got old. He got old, he got his mustache. But Star Fox Zero is like, nope, same crew, we're gonna bring them the classic crew. Let's bring them back, let's go through all like the levels that you're familiar with to some extent with some new grandiose set pieces, and they did a good job in that aspect. What always gets talked about is the control scheme. They, for some reason, were just so hell-bent on it. Almost feels like at this point it was like they were trying to convince themselves of you need the you need the gamepad. And now you're talking to somebody who loves the Wii U, and I love the idea of having two screens. And like, yes, let's I wish we had more time to like really flesh out cool ideas with that because they were there were some cool ideas. They almost enforced at points like a first person view versus a third person view of like the third person we're used to by default. You can switch to first person, but most of us are familiar with like the behind the ship view of Star Fox. What this game was trying to do was the way it works is that you look at your gamepad for a first-person view, and it arguably gives you a more precise shooting like controls using like the gyro to move the reticle around and like get very precise aiming, but from the cockpit view. So from that, like on paper, it sounds really cool. You can look at the TV, you can get a good view of like everything that you're seeing around you. You can you can see like the grandiose set piece on your great plasma screen TV or whatever, and then right next to you, you're in the cockpit. It's cool. The immersion is right there. You're looking out your cockpit, you can like turn the Wii U gamepad to like aim very accurately and shoot stuff.

James 1:05:06

How cool is that? It's like I'm really in the Rwing, Grian, honestly. Oh my god.

Ryan 1:05:10

It's amazing. The thing is, like, not everybody really wanted that. They had the very nice experience on screen. They they wanted to like shoot stuff on screen, and you can do that for the most part, but there's two points here. One, I discovered they purposely made the screen less accurate than the gamepad. I was playing around with this, and like I was aiming at like a line on the screen of like a wall and shooting it, and then I looked down at my gamepad, and it's like the whole reticle box is four inches lower. So they really do enforce like the screen is supposed to be your general view. And if you want to loosely aim at something, sure. But if you need precision, boy, you better look down. You better look down at your gamepad and shoot how you want.

James 1:05:58

That's a little frustrating, especially. Especially on a series that accuracy is very important. Especially I'm thinking in 64, where you actually have to purposely like aim your shots ahead of Star Wolf for dog fights where that precision matters, where you can't just fudge it on the screen or whatever. Now, I want to do a devil's advocate. So this is this is a point. This was almost kind of like my thesis that I was coming back to with like revisiting all these games. Is Star Fox has always been a vehicle for innovation. So the Super FX chip, huge deal for the Super Nintendo, really pushed the boundaries of what was feasible on that console. Maybe not as much of like a technical innovation, but like really still has some impressive concepts for the time for gameplay wise. Star Fox 64 introduces the Rumble. And Star Fox Zero, you know, despite its flaws with its control scheme, is really trying to sell you on that immersion with the gamepad. I mean, that was kind of the whole point of the Wii U gamepad in the first place. So, like, would this experience have been diminished or more valuable had they had more options to just play like normally on the TV?

Ryan 1:07:13

That's a great point. On paper, you can see what it's doing. And the unfortunate thing is, even if you do embrace it, there are still some other control things that make it a little janky. Best case scenario is how I can put this, is it feels like you are slipping on ice ever so slightly while flying through space. Not optimal. That does not sound optimal to me. There's there's even like walker segments, though, where like you're aiming at stuff and you're trying to use like the right control stick to like do evasive maneuvers. And for some reason, when you're like, okay, I'll look at the gamepad, I will aim at this thing, but now I need to dodge, actually moves your view right as you're trying to dodge. It just feels like something is like pushing you, and something unexpected is happening when you're just trying to like aim. That's like a constant thing. And I think the biggest frustration is that could have been fixed. A simple key mapping would have fixed that issue before. It actually made me look for ROM hex to see if that was possible.

James 1:08:18

I want to put a pin in that because despite me like trying to be devil's advocate, like, oh, just just be immersed in the R Wing for once, Ryan. Enjoy the flight, you know. I have issues. It's when the when the control scheme, like when they like, I just like to have the option, you know. I like there to be flexibility in like how you can actually play a game. So, you know, if something really isn't sticking with you, or it's like, hey, this could be a really cool, like for people who want to, you know, nowadays it's like, do you want to play quality or performance mode? And that's a frame rate thing, but like to some people, that's the type of experience they want to have. Nice to have the option. Sure. You know, when I played Star Fox 64, I'm sure there's people that love playing it in first person, a cool viewpoint, but like I don't love playing it in the first person mode. It sounds like they're forcing you, like, this is the one way you're experiencing this game, and you're just gonna have to deal with it.

Ryan 1:09:14

Exactly. To wrap it up, the reimagining of Star Fox 64 is really cool. The characters are all still there, the set pieces are magnificent, and they're really fun to like fly around in and just look at. It's it's very nice eye candy. It's just comes with that caveat of you will be fighting the system to some extent, even if you embrace it. So that's my warning. It's still worth checking out, and I'm still in the middle of a playthrough right now, so I'll I can give like a full review maybe later on when we come back and touch all these games again. But if that's what you're hearing about Zero, it's it's got some merit to it. But don't let it like totally scare you away because there's other stuff that is like valuable here.

James 1:09:58

I think uh context is important too. So before this game released, we got a 3D remake on 3DS of Star Fox 64. It's got some neat quality of life features and cool visuals with like the character portraits being on the bottom screen, but like to to the point Star Fox 64 3D had released, and now we're getting a reimagining of like Star Fox 64, which again, very cool. It has like updated levels and characters, and like it is reimagining it in a more expanded and cool way, but like it's like Star Fox 64 again, and the Wii U was not really in a great position as a console, so I think that that just unfortunately has like a bit of a sour aspect to this game, even though it is a cool Star Fox experience, it has its flaws, and the Wii U was not doing well, and it didn't help do anything for the Wii U. Like you said, there are merits to playing this game today, it's just it comes with some caveats.

Ryan 1:10:59

Yeah, like again, if you embrace the control scheme, it's actually really cool. And I I can see what they were doing with it. What like grinds my gear the most about is like I have this nice TV in front of me. I want to admire the set piece. I don't want to be looking at my little dinky, what is it, like 1280 by 720? I don't even know the resolution of the game back. It's like that, and it's not OLAD. I'm gonna be a super snob about this. It'll be on your mind.

James 1:11:24

So I mean, I'm sorry when Fox is flying through the Lilad system. Do you think he has time to stop and admire the scenery, Ryan? I mean, come on, let's get immersed here.

Ryan 1:11:33

You're right.

Star Fox Command (DS)

James 1:11:34

Yep, true immersion. I'm messing it up. So the last game I want to talk about today is Star Fox Command. And I don't know how popular this one is as like a talking point in the series. I feel like it kind of came and went. So this released after Assault and was on the Nintendo DS. So, first portable entry in the series. The interesting thing is, and I I remember booting this up and I saw Q Games on the title screen, and I was like, who are these people? Who are Q Games? I've never heard of them. I know Zero was developed by Platinum Games and Rareware Developed Adventures, like, but I had never heard of Q Games. Well, funny enough, Star Fox alum from Argonaut, Dylan Cuthbert, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly. I'm sorry if I butchered it, founded this studio after leaving Argonaut and was the lead director of this title. So this was like original Star Fox creation. Like some of that team helped to work on this game. So that alone, once I found that out, it it added a lot of context to a lot of what I played here. Sure, you got a core ingredient right there. That sounds promising. And I thought it was really interesting because then that that spiral into like I gotta know more about like what happened here, you know, like because this game is really, really interesting to talk about. So there's a time extension interview in which they interviewed Dylan, and he quotes Miyamoto suggested it to us because he wanted the ideas in Star Fox to explored more. And of course, I'd been heavily involved in that. So at the time when I played this game, I just thought it was like, again, another shakeup of the series. They're doing something different with it. They're Star Fox Command, this is like a strategy game almost. Had no clue that this was literally ripped from the DNA of Star Fox 2. Interestingly enough, you know, a game that I sung its praises about all throughout this episode. The whole time I had been playing sort of a spiritual successor on the DS in 2007.

Ryan 1:13:33

What again, what a unique enigma of Nintendo history. Like, to have one game that never released affects so many other games.

James 1:13:42

This one game has so much to it. Star Fox 2 had so much in it that like people just didn't even know was like spliced throughout all of these games. You really see this from the start because it has a similar feel to it, where like you get a map and you don't get a full scope of the Lilat system. You get it's a stage-by-stage thing. So once again, we're back on good old corn area for stage one, and on the bottom screen is your map. And so you do like in Star Fox 2, you drag your units along to like where you want them to go. If the Great Fox gets destroyed, it's game over. So it already kind of has that similar feel of how you need to approach objectives and things like that. It's all range mode all the time. There are zero on rails segments in this entire game. It does, I think the coolest thing, I think the coolest idea of every single game we've talked about today is that there are again multiple different pilots you can play as. Basically, anyone that you have ever seen in a Star Fox game, you can pilot. You can play as Star Wolf, depending on how you progress through the game. So you get to play as the full crew. Whoa, that's sweet. It's interesting. So, like every, you know, there are different stats. There's not really any upgrades in this game, so you're not getting like the laser upgrades or bombs, like you do get bombs, but everybody's stats kind of accommodate for that. Fox is like the all-around whatever. He has a single laser shot only. He does have the capability to lock on, which not everybody does. He has like a single lock-on, single fire, and like pretty well balanced stats. But everybody's got their own HUD, like on the bottom screen. There's different color schemes and elements to it. So it's a really cool personality thing. And that reflects in the ships too. Everybody flies a different ship. But you may have a character like Slippy who has plasma, so that's the equivalent of the blue laser in 64, but he cannot lock on, and he only has one bomb. So there are a lot of different considerations to like if I'm tackling a base or if I'm going on like an objective with a ton of enemies, maybe I want somebody who can do the lock on or has more bombs or something. But it's just really cool. There's like 20 different pilots that all have their own unique quirks, and it's just really cool to play as the are the two from Star Fox 2 there?

Ryan 1:16:01

No, unfortunately.

James 1:16:03

Really, truly, tragically, no. So in this game, mostly again, kind of operates similar to Star Fox 2. It is not real time, so there's not like that like real time aspect to it. It's all turn-based. So the progression of this game is literally pulled from like a choose your own adventure book. When you so there's not optional objectives, it's not like oh, I cleared an under X amount of turns or whatever. You beat a level, you get the story, and it will literally have a box of like, should I go with Falco or should I rendezvous with Slippy on Aquas? And so you basically your goal is to basically build your crew to get to Venom. And so you always start as Fox, but then you know, you can you you gather your allies over time. There are a couple of new characters introduced, I think, uh like Andros's grandson is a character. His name is Dash, and just a little monkey. You know, he's like he's actually part of the like coronarian army, so he's like a good guy. Kind spoiler, kind of, but um, you you get um uh Peppy has a granddaughter, um, I think. So um I guess for story context, it's I want to get into this later, but for the story purposes of this game, uh Star Fox has disbanded, and especially Crystal, where like Fox was like, I don't want you getting hurt, I don't want you putting yourself in the line of duty. So while they were together, they break up and she joins Star Wolf. So it's just like a really interesting of like the story. Yeah, I played two runs of this game. It's really frustrating because, on one hand, I love so much of what this game introduces. The cool progression where you get to pick your own story, assemble a unique cast of characters to get to the end, all of the different pilot abilities, and then the strategy just feels so pointless. It feels so half-baked, just feels like here's the map. It's very clear I can just have Fox go up, I can have Slippy go in like this little corner because he's closer, and it just kind of like plays itself. There's not really a whole lot of consideration for like who needs to even tackle what objective. It's not like Star Fox 2, where you have the bases or longer levels that tankier build would be more important for. You just kind of draw on the screen and get to fights and move on. It almost feels like the strategy is just a weird game over stress because if you happen to miss an objective or like a missile gets through, you just have to restart the whole level over from the beginning. There's like now instant loss conditions that are just kind of like annoyingly there. Like you can run out of turns, you have to basically do the level in a certain number of turns. So there was one where like I let an enemy slip through, and even though it didn't hit the great fox, I ran out of turns. So you just get the you full stop and watch the enemy go all the way down and just kill your run, and you just have to restart. It's just kind of weird. The all range mode is cool, but I don't feel like it really impacts the game all that much. You're just kind of flying through mostly different skinned levels where there's not a whole lot of obstacles that really get in your way, it's just slightly different enemy types. I don't feel like the the combat is as interesting as even Star Fox 2, but especially something like 64 or assault or something like that, or zero. The aspects of it are really, really cool. It's just like the way you do bombs in this game is you literally drag it on the touch screen where you want it to go. There are some fights where you can end it in literally seconds, where like you see the clump of enemies you're supposed to hit, you drag the bomb, and like the mission's over. Done. Two seconds. I kind of want to put a pin in this, but this is a game that has so many cool ideas, but I just feel like the game is a little flawed. It sounds like it doesn't hit the mark that two did. The second run I had was much more convincing to some of the strategy in some ways. The first run was brain dead easy. It also locks you out of story choices. You do like the canon run or whatever on the first go, and then you unlock the ability to make different choices. So in my second playthrough, it was much more interesting, where about level four out of six, Fox finally reunites with Crystal, and he's like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I need you back. First of all, the dialogue I that's a separate point, but he's like, Oh, oh, Crystal, I missed you. I I'm so sorry, you know what I did was wrong. And basically, at that point, you choose Crystal's decision whether you ditch Fox or you go with him. Wow. So I took the route where I left Fox. I said, No, you had your chance and you blew it. And the funny thing is, Rob and the Great Fox just go with you. So, like, I don't know what happens to Fox at that point, but like I'm on the Great Fox now with Star Wolf, and now we're gonna go. Wait, you just ditch Fox?

Ryan 1:21:07

He's just out of the picture.

James 1:21:09

Yeah, he's just gone for the rest of the game. I did not talk to Slippy or Fox or Fat like they were just gone. They were gone from the game, and I now played as Star Wolf for the rest of the run, which ended up being very difficult. The last couple levels on that route were actually like I had considerations that mattered. So, like missiles getting to the end to the Great Fox is an instant loss. So when taking down missiles, that part sucks because the controls for that part suck. This game is controlled entirely on the touch screen. When you're holding the DS, you have your finger on the the shoulder button and the D-pad, those are used for your lasers, but anything else, so like double tapping the top part of the screen is a boost, double tap the bottom part is your break. Um, tapping a button on the side does a somersault. So like everything is all touch screen focused. Most part it works fine, but it can feel a bit slippery, and not that that's like really too much of an issue until you get to the missiles. This is how it works in Star Fox 2, just like they were saying earlier, how they pulled from this stuff. If you do not defeat a missile in time, or you basically like get out of the slip stream, the missile escapes and keeps going forward and like you lose the stage. Sorry, not I'm just getting angry about this level. So you have these little squares that are like the slip stream. So you have to basically fly through all of the gates without ever breaking them. And so there'll be like one on the bottom, one on the top, that back on like they just kind of move around and you're boosting and going faster and faster throughout this whole thing. You have to like draw on the touch screen and you're like maneuvering around and make maintaining these slip gates, but when you get close enough to the missile, you have to start shooting at it, and it just never feels right because you're like you're trying to kind of aim towards it, but then you have to like be in the gates, and then there are some where you're going so fast, you're like, I have to go from like bottom of the screen to top, so you're like flying around doing all these crazy things, and like the missile escapes, I get angry, I yell at the game, and then it gets to the great fox and ends my run, and I have to waste an hour starting over again. So in the Star Wolf run, it was interesting because there was so much to do, there were so many different like enemy types and bases, missiles like Panther has a magnum shot that does like 50% damage on a single hit. So he's great for taking out missiles because I only have to hit it twice. So that is actually impactful. That meant like I had to consider keeping him back as emergency backup for when missiles were getting shot out, so I wouldn't lose the run. There was a base I was tackling as Crystal that was difficult because she doesn't have a lock on. So when I was dogfighting this enemy that was flipping and dipping throughout the whole frickin' time, that was really difficult because I couldn't lock onto him. So I actually, when I retried the stage, I switched my pilots around so I would fight them differently. So parts of this game reward the strategy. In most cases, it doesn't matter. There's so many mixed emotions because it is such a cool game and concept, but it feels like so much of the execution is just not quite there. If you like Star Fox 2, I do think it's worth a try. It does have some incorporation of the strategy elements. This is more turn-based focused. So if the real-time aspects frustrated you from two, or you just don't like real-time strategy elements in your games, this might be a good pick for you because it does have some consideration to how you move around and fight enemies. I want to end this game with the dialogue.

Ryan 1:24:52

What I've heard the most about this game is not the gameplay, it's certainly not the missiles, it's the choose your own adventure routes that you can do. And some of them are just crazy like it's like exploring a multiverse of Star Fox isms. So I can only imagine what kind of dialogue you're about to output here.

James 1:25:10

There's one I want to touch on. So this was actually on my second route. This is Star Wolf Returns. So this is after I literally threw Fox in the trash. I abandoned him, I took the great Fox with me. Crystal said, Panther, you're the one for me. I'm fine. I don't have feelings for him. I moved on. We're gonna tackle this as a team together. So let me read you the ending to Star Wolf Returns. Star Wolf rises across Lilat. People talk of Wolf O'Donnell and his courageous crew, but they are less kind to Crystal, feeling that she was wrong to abandon Star Fox. But she ignores the talk and proceeds with her new life as a member of Star Wolf. Eventually, the slings and arrows of the populace are too much to bear. They begin to hiss as she walks by and name her traitor to her face. She is alone, dot dot dot, and hated. She pulls away from Star Wolf and tries to find meaning in this new, cruel world. Haunted by her past, Crystal abandons her life and flees to a distant galaxy, changing her name to Cursed with a K. She survives by collecting bounties on the worst scum in the galaxy. Years later, she runs into Fox during a job on Planet Q. He does not recognize her. Is that it? That's it.

Ryan 1:26:32

Oh my god. Bum bump bump. That could be a segue into another game right there.

James 1:26:39

Now, there are some like really crazy ending considerations and things like that. I do love the choose your own adventure aspect. And I'm sorry, there was one more line that literally made me eye roll just from another ending. Once again, Fox McLeod was forced to wander the world alone, dot dot dot and unloved. I'm like, what are we doing here? Like, what is this game? What is the script? It is so crazy. They harp so much on this, like, I guess if you want to frame it as like a space drama, but like they really lean so much into like Fox being like, Oh my gosh, Crystal left me. I'm so sad. And like it's so bizarre. Like, it feels like a weird step outside of the hype moments or those crazy moments in 64 that just feel cool to play through, or had like that memorable hook to it, where this is just like who wrote this game, man?

Ryan 1:27:37

I don't know. Well, it's it's interesting because we were talking about like how every game introduces a technical marvel or something. It feels like here they were just given free reign to just be like, hey, like what happens if this happens, and let's just run with that. And this is gonna be like the only way we can explore these different timelines and the absurdity of some of these. Scenarios that come up. So, and it is to be fair, like what again, it's it's what gets talked about the most with this game.

James 1:28:06

It is entertaining. Like, I like despite my gripes with the text that I'm reading, I love the aspect of multiple endings, and it is fun to go through and see how your game can end and like really deviate on the path to like get to these endings. So I do appreciate it for that. I don't want to come across as just crapping on these endings or anything. It's just hard to ignore when you just have like I'm thinking of how Star Fox 64 ends, no spoilers. And I'm thinking about how some of these games have so cool moments, and this is such a shift of just kind of feels like a fan fiction at times. But the ending considerations are very cool, and I think that that would be a cool direction to take for a future series title if they ever make one, is kind of this like really craft the story how you see fit. And again, I for for so much of the game, I was just playing as Star Fox and his buds, and then all of a sudden it's like, no, you get to play as Star Wolf. You picked that route, and I'm like, that's pretty cool.

Ryan 1:29:08

That is very cool. I mean, Star Wolf is such a cool team, and you just you get to see them so few times, even like scumbag Pygma. It's it's it I was that like that felt like the era of like you can play as the good guys or the bad guys, or or like you can be good or evil with like fable and infamous and Bioshock, and that felt that very much has like that energy, yeah.

Series Final Thoughts

James 1:29:32

And it's fun. I mean, like that is kind of a a narrative device they use for Star Wolf story, is like we're tired of having the bounty on our heads, like we can be the heroes to save the galaxy, so it's like cool, you know. And they still have all of their like classic themes, you know, like when you play as wolf, he just gets the Star Wolf theme. I'm like, this is so cool, man. I went through a lot of highs and lows with command. I'm glad I played it for that second run because I really wasn't super high on it the first time, but just seeing how the game can morph into something like radically different through your choices was really cool. All right. We have talked quite a lot of Star Fox. I I didn't really know how this was gonna go, but it's really fascinating to go through all of these games and take a look at the series from a from a step back and just see what makes Star Fox so special. Why do people want so badly a new Star Fox game? Why is there such a drive for a new entry or for indies to take a stab at it? There is something special with this series, and you really see through the highs and the lows through something like 64, which is kind of the best version of this concept. It's a series full of just really amazing moments, really cool personalities and designs, uh trying to implement technology or control schemes. Uh it's just a really fun series that there's a reason it's one of people's favorite Nintendo franchises.

Wild Blue Skies Shoutout

Ryan 1:31:02

Agreed. It's got its own enigmas in it, again, with Star Fox 2 coming out, and we getting exposed to like even more core gameplay of where that came from and how it was used later. I totally get what people say about the hype around 64, and it feels like the consensus is they've done it once, they've proven it that the formula works in 64. So please get that energy and do it again properly somewhere else. Don't add in something that knocks down a star, don't add in controls that you can't modify, or arguably less than engaging ground segments, or take such a turn in the story where you don't have that traditional Star Fox formula there. It's tough to do something new and still have that formula. It just feels like the series hasn't stayed true to the formula in an effective way since '64.

James 1:32:05

I would like to shout out Wild Blue Skies, an indie scheduled to be released this year, published by Humble Games. I mean, if you're looking for a Star Fox experience in 2026, I know there has been rumors of an upcoming Switch to Star Fox game looming around, whether that is true or not. But if you have played through Star Fox and you want more, I think you need to keep your sights on Wild Blue Skies because the trailers they have put out, some of the early footage they've shown for this game. I mean, this is pretty much what I would want from a Star Fox game. And it's really great to see that there are teams that really at this point, you know, it's kind of funny. It's like, well, if you guys won't, then I will.

Ryan 1:32:49

So you know what's funny, James, is another key player from the original Star Fox is working on this game. Are you are you serious? I did not know that.

James 1:32:59

Yeah. Giles Goddard. That's awesome, man. That's really cool to see. I've had this wish listed for a while. I forgot about that game, but this gets me excited to like check this out when it releases. I mean, like, I've been on the Star Fox train, so to speak, for the past few weeks, and I'm just excited for more.

Ryan 1:33:17

Yeah. I mean, isn't that funny that even like the key players in the original game were like, you know what? We'll we'll just make our own. They find their way.

What is Your Ideal Star Fox Game?

James 1:33:25

I mean, it's like, hey, I developed a new studio, but if if Miyamoto approaches me and wants a new Star Fox game, I'll make it happen on the DS or I'm going indie. Let's go. Studios change, people leave, you know, other doors open, and it's like, hey, I can contribute to this. I have the experience, so that's really cool. My final thoughts, I wanted to end on, Ryan. What is your ideal Star Fox game? If you had full reign and full control to make any Star Fox game you want, what would you implement in it? What do we want out of this potential new game?

Ryan 1:33:59

Again, I can see the viewpoint of Star Fox 64 being like the staple formula to go off of. I want that to be leaned into for sure this time. I want controls to be seamless and like I have full control over the ship because they really need to nail down the acrobatics plus on-rail shooter part that I described in the original Star Fox, and that they did do well in Star Fox 64. So I definitely want the core there, but I also want to see more of the Lilat system and the universe and the characters. I love the short they did for Star Fox Zero because it it just showed like corneria for a bit, and it showed like animals like playing guitar, just kind of living their lives and stuff. And for some reason that just like really hit home with me, and it was like, oh man, I'd love to just like see like kind of more of a universe of like what what is up with this like animal universe we're in. It's just it's such a perfect platform. Let's explore more into those aspects. I want to explore this universe, let alone a world. Like, give me give me this universe that we've established in.

James 1:35:07

First of all, yes, I love world building. So just more of it. I think that like, you know, there are little interesting details peppered throughout these games, uh, no pun intended, with General Pepper here. Um, it's interesting because I think he and Andros used to work together. So when he like exiled Andros to Venom, that was like a big source of his villainy getting back at Corneria and the Lilat system. So like they don't really explore that much, but like I love kind of that like let's know more about like what civilization is like on Cornelia, you know, just like real life everyday things going on, or like more lore. You know, the Star Fox command endings paint an interesting question. Who do you play as in the new Star Fox game? Are you the original crew? One of the endings suggests like a new Star Fox crew with like Fox's kid, and Falco is the Pepe role where he's like the old guy of the crew that's recruited. Like, would you would you shake it up or are you or we are we stick into the core?

Ryan 1:36:11

I kind of just like want the core. I want the core there, and it's hard to say that because it's like okay, just go play 64. But I remember watching my roommate play Assault and having Peppy in the back and seeing like very little pepper was it was just jarring to me. I don't know. But you have to evolve a series at the same time. It's it's hard to do that.

James 1:36:34

Yeah, I mean it's kind of it's a different gameplay experience, it's not like a grand adventure like a Zelda game where I'm playing as Link every time, and that's gonna be weird if I don't. But like I think this is a format where they could spice it up a little bit. I'm very mixed because I do think, like you said, they should not get away from what makes Star Fox fun to play. And I would say 64 is like the blueprint for that. Just truly how that game controls the set piece moments, the music, the graphics, it all lines up in just such a tight, well thought out package. But I can't shake, I can't shake them. I can't shake playing command and two and having such cool ideas and interesting things to explore in the series. Like, I would love to play as multiple pilots with varying wildly different abilities and stats. That's a really cool aspect of command. I freaking love the strategy elements. I mean, roguelikes have been so popular now. I could see a world where they just make like a like a fl more fleshed out Star Fox too, and like that's the format, you know, and that's their like hook on replayability where things are different, and there's more planets, and there's more pilots, and there's more like I could see that, you know, that that could be a game I would personally be happy with, but it's just it's a fun experiment to think about where this series could go when you have so many ideas across so many games.

Ryan 1:38:06

It is a lot to work with, and there's just there's so much potential. Yeah. So what gameplay do you think would be the best direction for it to head in?

James 1:38:16

I think the safest correct route is Star Fox 64 enhanced again, but like genuinely do a different story this time. Maybe give me some more pilots, maybe even like pilot select at stage select or something. I really like what Star Fox Command does. Maybe that's their hook for like replayability is like you do the story aspect and your cast of pilots shifts as you go different directions or something. But I think you got it. I think you have to stick to 64 gameplay.

Ryan 1:38:47

Should they try a somersault?

James 1:38:49

Maybe a barrel roll or two. You want to know what my like wild, like it's not gonna happen, but like my my fever dream hook would be please is just make Star Fox 2 with a little bit of command, just you know, expand it, improve on it. You have online, you can turn on or off, and whenever you fight Star Wolf, that can be another player. Like you could just be like you're just playing your own game, but you have like it kind of like in a fighting game, you're in training mode, but when you get a match, all right, now we're hopping in. Like, give players the ability to play this game single player with online on, and then when somebody in the world runs into Star Wolf, you can hit accept, and then you are now like do the dog fight. I think that would be cool. Careful, James. Your Dark Souls is showing. Oh, I just it's it's I can't I told you I can't shake it, it's on my mind. A bogey on my tail. When it works, it works. Tell me I'm wrong. And then obviously, I mean, like whether people play it a lot or not, it'd be just nice to have like multiplayer online maybe do like it's like 4v4, but like a little bit of PVE, PvP stuff kind of injected into it. Like maybe there are like if it's like a score attack and like both teams are trying to shoot down the PvE enemies, but then like you can also harass the players or something, and it's just like a timed, you know, five-minute deat match kind of thing. I don't know. I I they certainly could, I don't think they will. I think most likely they will probably just do, and I could see it being like a $60 game or something, maybe not like the full price, but they like refocus, expand 64s, what made it good, and then you just kind of, you know, like the return of Star Fox with some new people, new pilots, new levels, and stuff. And I think that they could probably ride that to a pretty successful launch.

Ryan 1:40:43

Well, you know, that idea isn't so outlandish given there seems to be more of a push for like game chat stuff. Like I can see a world where you see your friends flying around. Yep. You see your friends flying around and you see like their faces on top of the ships, like, oh, I got a bogey on my or like it shows up on the screen on the bottom. That's what I'm saying. It's like it it might happen for like multiplayer functionality. We might get more than what we've had in the past, along with like a main game, along with like a main game story and stuff, but you know, that that seems plausible to be honest.

James 1:41:20

They really have been pushing, especially the last these past few months, like game share and game chat. Like, don't forget that this button exists on your controller.

Ryan 1:41:29

Don't worry, I have.

James 1:41:30

I yeah, I wonder if they have that data, like how many people have even approved the service, basically, because you know, you have to have like accept the terms or whatever. I I wonder if they just have seen like nobody has like really utilized this, and now they're like they have kind of thought about like experiences being developed with this kind of implementation in mind. Because I think people would, you know, you could say what you want about like the video quality or like actual handling of game chat, but like well, it's funny because the video quality would actually be on brand for this. Yeah, just like a just like a fuzzy portrait, you know. So, but yeah, I would be down for absolutely that, even if it was just a co-op campaign and everybody's flying around or in all range modes. I was like, Yeah, absolutely.

Quiz Time! How Well Do You Know Corneria?

Ryan 1:42:16

That would be okay, yeah. That that would be my want. Let's do a co-op because that makes it instantly more fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. Good stuff. So, James, we talked a lot about Star Fox. I am more of a newcomer to Star Fox 64, but you are a veteran, and I wanted to put those veteran skills to the test. When was the last time you played 64?

James 1:42:51

Right before this podcast, I played through Cornaria, and probably a few days ago I played another run. But I'll have you know, Ryan, I am an esteemed member of the Cornerian military, and I don't know if you know Bill, but Bill was my guy, and we go way back, so don't think that you're gonna put anything past me.

Ryan 1:43:12

Bill sounds like a great guy. I can't wait to meet him on one of my future runs. Well, let's put this to the test. I'm glad you played through Cornelia because I've got some quiz questions of the sights and the sounds of the beautiful city of Cornelia. So this is all from level one, Star Fox 64 Cornelia. So, listeners, please play along too and see how many you get. So let's go. First question: What is the first item you can get in Cornelia? Is it a bomb? B double lasers, C, a silver ring, or ding, wing repair.

James 1:43:53

I am pretty confident it's a double laser, but I feel like it could, it's that or the bomb. So I'm gonna say double laser and hope I'm right. Final answer.

Ryan 1:44:02

You are correct. It is double laser. Yeah. All right, next question. There are tall T-shaped buildings with a teleprompter on the top of them. What text is being shown there? You don't even have to read the multiple choice. It says good luck.

James 1:44:21

You got it. Good stuff. I thought that one would trip you up. What a crazy thing to put on the prompter as like your building, as your city is being like completely obliterated. It's like, good luck, guys.

Ryan 1:44:33

Thanks for saving us. I mean, to read the answers, I had Cornelia, emergency, or Einstein as like a throwaway. But I thought emergency or like seek shelter or something would be up there. But good luck. Good luck. Like, oh, citizens, all right. All right, question three. Shortly after entering Cornelia, you can obtain your first gold ring. Where is this located at? Is it A between two thin buildings on the left? B underneath an arch that is above a road, C, underneath an arch that is supporting a bridge, or D between two trees on the right.

James 1:45:16

I want to say it is A or B. I think it's A. I know there's like um, so those little structures you can actually shoot to kind of like open the door, and my brain is telling me that's where the first gold ring is. But I also know that there is another gold ring, like where that like bridge support is, but I believe A is first, so I'm gonna go with A. Final answer.

Ryan 1:45:42

I'm sorry it was B. It was it. You were correct about a uh gold ring being under a bridge, but there is another the exact same structure, just no bridge on top of it. And it's just like on a road, but it's just like this little arch with the gold ring in it.

James 1:45:58

Damn it.

Ryan 1:45:59

You were on the right track, but that was indeed a tricky one.

James 1:46:02

Pepper's gonna be on my ass for this one.

Ryan 1:46:06

Alright. Question four. About halfway through Cornelia, you encounter a bridge where four enemies shoot many lasers at you. What feedback does Peppy Hare give you at this moment? Is it, and I will do my best impression. Is it a use the break? B try a somersault, C, do a barrel roll, or D, use the boost to chase.

James 1:46:33

It's everybody's favorite, do a barrel roll. Final answer.

Ryan 1:46:37

Let's go. Correct, correct. I tried to give you a hint there of many lasers at you.

James 1:46:43

I would have been tripped up if um, because I think he gives you a tip on like using a bomb, but I don't know if he does it in corneria.

Ryan 1:46:51

I don't think he does. From the script I reviewed, I don't think he does.

James 1:46:54

In Meteos, I think he he drops the like use a bomb to clear the area or something like that. Okay, great.

Ryan 1:47:02

Alright. Next question. Falco can lead you to an alternate boss by flying underneath natural stone arches. How many do you have to fly under to trigger this event? James is holding up seven fingers. He is correct. Well done. It's so funny. We were talking about that earlier, and I was just like, put a pin in that.

James 1:47:23

It's funny too, because again, the the damn manual, the manual, the the text of the gods, the text from Miyamoto himself, literally details the seven rings that you need to fly through, but I did count on my replay.

Ryan 1:47:39

Good job. That was critical information to remember. All right, so that ends the cribia segment. We're now gonna move on to everybody's favorite aspect of this game is the quotes.

James 1:47:50

I thought you were gonna say we're gonna go to all range mode, but I guess this works too.

Ryan 1:47:54

Missed opportunity, damn it. Okay, so this game, this segment will just be finishing the quote. I will sometimes read something like before it, but I will indicate blank when you need to fill in the quote. Yes.

James 1:48:09

Question, uh, Professor Pepper. Um General Pepper Is this still from the open is this still from Cornelia or is this?

Ryan 1:48:18

This is all from Cornelia, correct. Okay, got it, got it. That is the scope of this entire quiz. Okay, sure. I just double checking. All right. I'll also give you one more hint. All of these quotes are in order of when you experience them in the level. Yes. Okay. All right. It's about time you showed up, Fox. You're the only hope for our world. I'll do my best. Blank. General, I believe. I will clarify. It's I'll do my best, exclamation mark, and then he says another quote after that. It's not a word, it's a full quote. I got nothing. I I'm thinking like Star Fox, roll out, but I know that's not right. This is a trickier one, but it is admittedly one of his more like potentially memorable lines. The answer is Andros won't have his way with me.

James 1:49:07

Sure. Okay, I gotcha. I believe that level is called Cornelia. Enter Star Fox. Oh. So at the very, very end of the second boss, that's a question posed by the boss. Who are you guys? Yeah, yeah. We're Star Fox. I'm like, hell yeah. So it kind of like circles back to the title. Q title card right there. Yeah.

Ryan 1:49:28

Roll credits. He said the thing. All right, what else you got for me? All right. So again, remember these quotes go in order of appearance. So the next quote is I see him up ahead, period. Blank.

James 1:49:43

I see him up ahead. Who even says that? God, I don't know, man. I feel like I've played this game so much and I'm like, I'm blanking it. I'm thinking of like the hints and like some of the the quips, but I'm not thinking of like the in-between dialogue. God I will tell you, Fox says this. Fox says it. Okay, so one more time, what is it? I see him up ahead. Blink.

Ryan 1:50:04

All units move out? I don't think that's right though. Here, I'll give you the cadence as the final hint. Okay. I see him up ahead. Hmm. I'm just gonna pass.

James 1:50:16

I'm gonna pass. I don't know. I don't know. And I should. The answer is let's rock and roll.

Ryan 1:50:22

That's right. I do remember he says that. Alright, yep. Uh this next quote is Whoa, help me. Thanks, Fox.

James 1:50:32

Blank. I know he says something dumb. I know. It's like I thought he had me this time, or he almost had me. It's something along those lines. I'll allow it.

Ryan 1:50:42

I thought they had me.

James 1:50:43

Okay, got it. Yeah.

Ryan 1:50:44

You got it. Yeah.

James 1:50:45

Thanks, Fox. I thought they had me.

Ryan 1:50:48

You know, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Oh slip. Alright. Next quote is You've got an enemy on your tail. Blink.

James 1:51:00

You've got I know Peppy says this. You've got an enemy on your tail. Blank is this one word or is this a quote? No, when I say blank, it is a full quote. Okay. I mean that would be like a use the brakes thing, he would say, but I well done. You got it. I didn't know if that was like a separate tip that is in another box or something.

Speaker 1:51:20

Some of these are like related, but they're like closely adjacent enough where it's like kind of a single image I put them in. So with that in mind.

Ryan 1:51:28

Use the brakes. So good job. Use the brake. All right. Next quote is I'll get this one. Get the one behind me.

James 1:51:36

Blank. That's Falco. That's where he says something's wrong with the G diffuser. Because then, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's what uh he he banks left, or he banks, yeah, he banks left and then he gets chased by the enemies and says that. So all right.

Ryan 1:51:52

Final quotes. Final quotes. Yeah. So you will pass if you get one, but I gave you multiple opportunities to answer it. Choose your own path, if you will. This is Fox saying this, and he gets three responses. So the quote is we're heading out. All aircraft report. Name everybody's quote that they say.

James 1:52:15

Oh, and I'm sure it's different if you do different paths too, because I'm so used to doing the hard route. I almost do the hard route every time.

Ryan 1:52:23

Oh just give me one and you got the point.

James 1:52:26

You're saying, you're saying give me one, and I'm already I'm already stressing about it. Okay. I know Falco tends to say something like, I guess I should thank you, but that's usually in response to you like actually saving him in the level. That's not something he would say.

Ryan 1:52:44

That is a Mayday response as R Wingpedia describes it. The old boys at the R Wingpedia.

James 1:52:50

Shout out. Thank you guys. Oh my goodness. No. Name anything that they say. Do you want to hint? I'm almost kind of leaning like something with Peppy, where it's like, your father would be proud, Fox.

Ryan 1:53:05

Oh, I'll give it to you. Yes. That is Peppy's iconic line. You're becoming a father. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. You got it. Well done. The other answers I would have accepted, one from Slippy is you did it. I was worried for a moment. Or Falco's, which is, I'm fine. You okay over there, Fox?

James 1:53:24

Okay. Yeah. I know. Peppy always likes to remind me of James McLeod, you know, the whole freaking run.

Ryan 1:53:33

Even in Venom, he's like, Your father saved me like that. Yeah, your father helped me like that once, too.

James 1:53:38

I'm like, okay, yeah.

Ryan 1:53:40

Meanwhile, I'm like, I got two on my tail. Shut up. So funny. Well, well done, James. You got most of them. Your total points are eight out of 11 questions. B for Bill. B for my guy, Bill.

James 1:53:57

You got it. Here's to you, Bill. Four one out. We'll see you on Katina. Go play that level. Well, that was so much fun. Ryan, I don't know what else I can say about Star Fox for now. I would love to come back to some of these games, especially Adventure. Adventure is one I'm like really excited to hear your thoughts on. But for now, I think we're gonna put out the campfire and take a break.

Ryan 1:54:20

Sounds good to me. I know for sure I want to try out Command after you describing it. So we might have to do a little game switcheroo and see how the other guy likes it.

James 1:54:29

Absolutely.

Ryan 1:54:30

I think you'll like Adventure because it is very Zelda-esque, and I can see you appreciating that for the most part.

James 1:54:36

I do remember the weird, like when Fox meets Crystal and they do the weird, like romantic saxons. Of everything I remember from that game, that is like one of the things that sticks out to me. So I would love a game swap. I would love to go back into the world of adventure, and perhaps you can really. I'd be curious to know what your favorite ending is in command because they get really kind of out there. There's a lot of weird story things that they just went full wild with.

Ryan 1:55:08

I fully expect this to be a game type of like I am grinding through this for the story bits, like a hundred percent, and I can't wait to explore all that. Well, campers, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to send us some fan mail, please click the send us fan mail button in the show notes. We'd love to hear your ideas for what you want to see for a new Star Fox game, or if you just want to say hi.

James 1:55:31

Thank you so much for joining us for the co op campfire, and we will see you next time.

Ryan 1:55:35

Thanks, guys. Stay cozy