Overcoming "Tutorial Hell" (feat. Monster Hunter Rise)

Ryan had more to say about those intimidating "Let Them Cook" type of games (see episode 9)! So, we're talking about the intimidating amount of tutorials in Monster Hunter: Rise featuring specially sent in feedback from Ryan's best friend / monster slaying buddy!

You'll get to hear a new player's experience with the Monster Hunter series and the "Tutorial Hell" every player has to go through. We also make some suggestions on how to conquer these obstacles to help YOU overcome these challenges, enjoy the learning, and "letting it cook"!

Games Discussed

Monster Hunter: Rise/Sunbreak

Special Thanks To

• Cover Art - @Falah
• Logo - @Psyonyx
• Music - Robotic Park by Kyon

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Transcript

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Intro

Ryan 0:00

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Co-op Campfire Podcast. And a very special episode is actually our first bonus episode. James could not be here this week, so I thought I would just pop on and talk to you guys about Monster Hunter!

Why Monster Hunter?

Ryan 0:27

Why Monster Hunter? Well, I wanted a follow-up to last week's episode of Let Them Cook type of games, where James and I got into a discussion about games that just require a bit more effort, or games that could just be a bit more intimidating for different reasons. One of those examples was a high learning curve. And I thought Monster Hunter fit the bill perfectly here.

Ryan 0:50

So why? Specifically, we're going to talk about Monster Hunter Rise that came out for the Switch originally. Monster Hunter, in general, for those of you who aren't familiar, has a core loop where you hunt, you gather materials, you craft gear, and you rinse and repeat. And you're always going up to like the next big bad monster that takes a little that hits a little harder, and you just feel a sense of progression in that sense.

Ryan 1:14

Very simple core formula, but there is a lot of nitty-gritty mechanics that each entry sometimes uniquely introduces, and it could just be a bit overwhelming. It could be a lot of tutorial hell, it could be a lot of dialogue boxes that's just very overwhelming. But it is very rewarding when you take your time and you actually learn all those systems and you feel like you're mastering not just a skill, but like an entire skill set. That's where the value is, and that's why I thought this was a great topic for this bonus episode.

Ryan 1:50

Another reason is because my best friend and I, we have been playing Monster Hunter Rise very frequently, and he is a new player into the series in itself, and he's actually been having a very good time diving into this kind of seemingly overwhelming experience. So he kindly wrote in some of his thoughts, and I'd like to just share them with you.

General Impressions

Ryan 2:13

Regarding just general impressions to start, he says:

Ryan 2:16

"I'm having fun. Recently hit four star missions, and the gameplay continues to be challenging and rewarding. It's interesting to see the weapon tree open up. There are so many options."

Ryan 2:28

And while that's great general feedback to have, I think it's core to point out that he would not have made it to rank four quests, which takes about like maybe four to eight hours to even get to.

Ryan 2:39

He also goes on to talk about the barrier to entry:

Ryan 2:42

"Opening this game for the first time is tough. So many systems, so much to read. It's great that they keep a log of all the tutorial messages for you, but I'm not sure I would be able to find the message I'm looking for if I tried. The depth of every system in this game is more than I've ever seen in any other game."

Ryan 3:02

Yes, uh Monster Hunter, especially this entry, does have a similar experience of when you start the game, it just starts throwing like different system after different system at you, and then oh, you do pick your weapon, but now you gotta learn about this owl or something. And it does seem a bit overwhelming, especially for a new player who is trying to figure out what the heck this series is is even about. I appreciate that they do have a log where you can search for it, but even then it could be like, oh, maybe you just skipped that bit or you didn't see that menu item of where are my tutorial logs, so it can seem a bit intimidating. My

Gameplay Loop

Ryan 3:43

best friend goes on to talk about the gameplay loop:

Ryan 3:45

"This game has a nice groove to it. Missions are limited to 50 minutes, but I don't think I've ever come close to that limit. Even while taking significant detours to pick up resources. There are many games I really like, yet rarely play, because I know how much time and effort will be needed to start having fun. In Monster Hunter Rise, I boot the game up, and within five minutes, I am in a mission. It reminds me of what makes roguelikes so compelling."

Ryan 4:12

Yeah, the 50 minutes, it does sound intimidating at first. You might start asking, like, why do they give me this much time? Is am I gonna take 30 minutes to take down a monster? The answer is no. Especially in the early game, it takes maybe five to ten minutes, like once you get a groove of taking down a monster. My guess is that they added that for more late game stuff. I'm sure there's monsters that might take like 20, 30 minutes.

Ryan 4:38

But the thing is, this game was advertised as the most accessible for co-op. That is kind of like why we started this, because we wanted to explore the co-op together. But I would rephrase that to actually like it's the most accessible into just like getting you going. Even if you were playing this solo, you can be in the first mission probably within like your first 10 to 20 minutes. Maybe it'll take five to 10 minutes to get into the tutorial mission where you start learning the unique mechanics of the game, like the wirebug, which is like a little zip line thing that you use to zip around. But then like soon after, you can start picking missions that actually have you fighting like the list of big monsters. So it's really cool how it does throw a lot at you, but it also just allows you to get going right away.

Weapons

Ryan 5:24

Then he goes on to talk about the weapons. This is a cool part. This is like where learning the weapons actually pays off. He says:

Ryan 5:32

"I've thoroughly enjoyed the lance moveset. Having access to a rock solid shield makes the slow movement speed tolerable. There is a distinct rhythm to using the lance. Poke, poke, poke, step, repeat, and it's fun to get into a groove with it. Every moment in a heated battle is a split-second decision between attacking, blocking, and countering, or closing the gap with a shield charge.

Ryan 5:57

The only drawback to me is the slow animation speed for drawing and sheathing the weapons, and fair enough, they are huge!

Ryan 6:05

The added options for what I will call the weapon art for the lance are a nice touch. The fun, yet vulnerable joust charge, which can run indefinitely as long as you have stamina in the tank, can be swapped out for a shielded charge with shorter range. But the standard block, which can be held as long as you want, can be swapped for a shorter duration block that opens the opportunity for a devastating counterattack, which breaks part of the monster more often than not."

Ryan 6:31

See, this is a good sign, and I will follow up with this is actually my second playthrough of playing Monster Hunter Rise. I am playing the longsword again because that's my style. Just like my best friend likes the lance, he likes kind of being the tanky. I like the longsword for being able to jump in, do a few combos, build up my spirit gauge for the weapon itself, which like levels up the damage and do cool things. And in this playthrough, I learned an entire different moveset, it feels like for it, of sheathing my weapon as part of my attack pattern. So there's a mechanic where you can attack with basic attacks, and then you can kind of sheath yourself and you take a few steps back, and then you can do a more basic attack, or you could do like this cool counter-attack if you time it right, where they hit you, and it automatically levels up your spirit gauge. Like it totally opened up an entirely different perspective of me using this weapon. And keep in mind, I spent like 20, 30 hours on my first playthrough just doing the very basic one, two, three, four combo, level it up. One, two, three, four combo, level it, like rinse and repeat there.

Ryan 7:41

So he's getting a perspective of learning his weapon. I'm getting a perspective of being able to master my weapon, and that is a perfect example of feeling the value of taking the time to actually learn the system. The amount of satisfaction I have right now is just through the roof. And I know my best friend is really enjoying like getting to know his lance. It's very exciting. Like a just along with the rest of the excitement that he is of just learning the game itself, learning the lance is a good reinforcement for that. And that feeds into the gameplay loop because you are trying to get better weapons. So naturally, you want to learn how to use them better. So,

Predictions

Ryan 8:22

as positive experience as he has had so far, he does have some concerns:

Ryan 8:26

"While I'm having fun here at rank four, I see a few looming problems that I hope I can overcome. Right now, I'm just enjoying the back and forth pace of battling, and I'm not particularly interested in grinding out rare resources from boss monsters to fill out my tech tree, other than the ones that look cool. I have no idea how to find the resources for about half of the available weapons, which is shocking since I thoroughly kill and carve everything I encounter. I suspect the grind is going to be required as the difficulty ramps up, and if pushed to use particular gear for every new fight, I might start to lose steam."

Ryan 9:05

Yeah, to that I will say since that directly feeds into the core game loop, that feels like something you would want to learn and learn how to do in a way that is still fun for you. Like it is part of the game of collecting materials, and so far we've been able to sort of just bomb through the monsters and take them down pretty quick and just keep progressing with the ranks. But I know there is going to be a time as he has concerns about where you have to start grinding a specific monster for it to drop a specific part, and there's only like a 20% chance sometimes of like dropping it, and that could get frustrating where you just spend like five, 10 minutes fighting something and you don't get it, you know. So that's probably again something that you would want to look into uh since it feeds into the main gameplay loop.

Ryan 9:57

And also the losing steam, I very much empathize with that. In my first playthrough, I think I encountered that exact same issue, and I got to about like maybe three or four monsters from the final boss, and was like, you know what? I think I'm good with my armor. I like my weapon, like let's just try to wrap this up. And luckily, the game is accessible in that sense. It's cool how you can get as good as you want and still beat the game. Like I felt achieved by I felt like I learned enough. I was able to beat the final boss, I put it down, it was like a good experience. Other players could keep going and they can learn every little system and they could feel achievement in that sense. But you're still learning something and you're feeling value from it at the end of the day. Like that is again the main value takeaway from this game. So it's just cool to me as a side note that like it's accessible in a way where you can learn as much as you want.

Ryan 10:53

So that's all my buddy had to say. Thank you again for writing in, man. I appreciate it, and I am looking forward to playing more with you!

Takeaways

Ryan 11:01

And to end on a summary of this, you know, Monster Hunter is a staple game of tutorial hell. It gives you a lot of prompts when you start that feed into the main system, but they could be different every time, and it seems like, oh, if I don't learn this, I'm gonna it's gonna bite me in the butt later. Like it could be intimidating.

Ryan 11:20

But just some practical advice here: if you're feeling that intimidation, but you feel like a part of the core gameplay loop is working, that's a good sign and it's worth exploring. And to that, I would ask you, what is your goal with this game? Do you want to just get going and start fighting monsters? Do you want to have an understanding of the basics and then go off with that? Do you want to get really good with your weapon and just like milk every ounce of cool combos you can do out of it? Whatever you are curious about, feel free to look up. Feel free to learn about it, and I promise there will be value and satisfaction from that experience alone.

Ryan 12:02

Explore the in-game archives. There are usually like hunter notes or logs or something. There's like there's the tutorial, but there's also like the hunter notes section where you can analyze the monsters you have fought, you can see what parts they drop, and you can just learn about the hunts better.

Ryan 12:21

And finally, lean on your friends to play. This whole conversation really came about last time because it usually stems from somebody wanting you to invest a lot of time or put a lot of effort into a game because they swear it's so good. It's just so good. You gotta play it, you gotta commit to it, you gotta work watch the first 10 episodes of this anime, man. And there is a way to tackle that. But if they are if they are really adamant about you playing it, then tag them for help. It's their duty to get you into this if they really want you to play it. So if they can be your Sherpa, please tag them in for help. Do not hesitate to do that. And it'll be a fun experience for you both. They can teach you and you can learn. So

Outro

Ryan 13:05

thank you for listening to this rambling about Monster Hunter. If you want to listen more about this specific topic, please go back and listen to episode 9, our let them cook type of games. James and I have a really interesting discussion about when games can be intimidating to play and what factors into that. So please go check that out. Uh, also, if you want to write in and send us fan mail, we always love hearing from our campers. You can email us at coopcampfirepodcast at gmail.com, or you can send us fan mail via the show notes link, or you can write to us on Bluesky.

Ryan 13:40

So, campers, thanks for listening, and we will see you at the next campfire. Stay cozy